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View Full Version : Lessons for us from weakened Israeli Army


angtauchwee
05-08-2006, 08:25 AM
I've been closely monitoring the Israeli campaign in Lebanon. In the old days, when the Israeli military was at its peak, it would have done the job in six days. Remember how it thrashed Egypt, Jordan, Syria and others in a mere six days. But now it can't even stop a rag-tag guerilla force from firing Katyusha rockets into its own territories. Worse still, even its mighty Merkava tanks are being destroyed by Hezbollah RPGs. It's sad to se these great war machines limping back into Israel from the Lebanese border, smoke still coming out from the sections where the tank was hit by multiple RPG hits.

The balance of power has shifted. In today's world of assymetrical warfare, it is not advanced weapons that count. It is like judo. You can throw a more powerful opponent off his feet by knowing where to trip him. The cheap, mass-manufactured anti-tank rocket is the weapon of the day now. When fired in salvos, like the militia and insurgents do in Iraq, they can inflict real damage on a more advanced force.

The lesson here for us? Don't rely heavily on advanced weapons. Ultimately, the factor that counts and that provides the tipping point is the foot soldier. The Israeli F-16s have been bombing Lebanon for more than three weeks in so-called precision attacks. Totally useless. Their Apaches crashed into each other in the fog of war. What the Israeli bomb attacks achieve is murdering more and more civilians. The consequence: Every bomb dropped pushes more Lebanese to support Hezbollah.

Also, vigiliance is important. When the Israelis withdrew from Lebanon six years ago, they didn't keep up surveillance and monitoring of the Hezbollah. They got distracted by the Intifada in the west Bank, allowing Hezbollah to build up its military capabilities and, more importantly, build up support among the Lebanese people by providing socials and medical services. Of course they were bankrolled by the Iranians and Syrians. So, the lesson here is to never take your eyes off the ball.

Finally, the NS spirit has been eroded in the Israeli military over the years. The soldiers and their training are not of the same calibre as in the days of even the Yom Kippur War. I read that many Israeli youths are not committed to NS. Also, their leadership is weaker. They don't have charismatic and dynamic leaders like Ariel Sharon, leaders who are not averse to taking risks. Look at how he took a gamble and crossed the Suez to encircle an entire Egyptian army corp in the Yom Kippur War?. He went against the orders of his superior. It is this kind of balls that you need in battle. Not blind obedience to HQ. Sharon's bold manoeurvre turned the tide of the war in favour of the Israelis. Do we have such leaders? Do we allow our military leaders to take risks?

We had better heed the lessons of the Israeli campaign in Lebanon...or else....

Ideasmiths
05-08-2006, 10:43 AM
The pen is mightier than the sword or so they say.

Before the farmers vs scholars war in sg, perhaps we still have a discipline force to play with. After the scholars won, high tech = high $$ = can justify = promotion.

In the good old olden day, I (NCO) shout, "Do that!" and it's done.
Now....the standard reply is "Why huh? why do that? can do later or not....it's better to do it this way...".

Thinking soldiers :D

BFnut
06-08-2006, 05:37 AM
The 6 day war in '67 saw Israel pitted against the 3 countries in a conventional setting:
a) IDF Aircraft took out the Egyptian AF & ground targets of opportunity.
b) Egyptian, Jordanian & Syrian troops, armour, arty & support were then systematically destroyed or captured.

Equipment used was "NATO" against "WARSAW", the Eagle vs the Bear.
Israeli-manned US M48s, M50 Shermans, British Centurion MBTs, French AMX13s fought against Syrian & Egyptian T55s.

Israeli Defence Force (IDF) Dassault Mirages dogfights with MIG21s. The Egyptian AF actually had a large & modern AF of Soviet origin (TU16 Badgers bombers, MIG21s) which were bombed on the ground in a pre-emptive air strike.

What won the 6 day war ? - I would say a combination of strategic & tactical planning, correct decision making, training & the use of technology/state of the art equipment. Battles were fought in terrains suitable for land & air warfare.

Today's context...
The US are STILL in Afghanistan & Iraq. The Israelis in Lebanon.
The war is a conventional army chasing down an unconventional threat.

Surprised that Merkavas are being destroyed by RPGs? The turret & hull are fitted with armour systems & additional blocks of armour that should protect against the latest gen of top down attack ATGMs. In addition, a skirt of chains with ball weights is installed on the lower half of the turret. Incoming HEAT rds will detonate on impact with the chains instead of penetrating the turret. Armour side skirts protect the tracked wheels.

Unless of course the Hezbollah are borrowing Mujahideen tactics of taking out a tank with multiple shooters. Tanks operating in Urban Terrain (UT)s are easily susceptible. No matter how heavily protected a tank is, there are still weak points that the Hez can exploit.

IDF soldiers could be doing their best to screen convoys & clear out possible RPG nests. The only other way is after a RPG is fired, the troopers bear down on the rocket exhaust & clear out the shooters.

IDF is dealing with a force that can blend in with the general population. The Hez dont wear uniforms or fight tank vs tank / air battles. As & when a target of opportune appears, they will take the shot & slip away. The Hez has nothing to lose & everything to gain.

IDF needs to rethink its strategy and focus more on unconventional methods to win the fight. Eg. Spec-ops resources should be unleased unconditionally & target Katyusha teams as well as other Hez missions.

I see the IDF as very much a reflection of the SAF.
What IDF did back in 67 or even in the Yom Kippur War, our SAF of the 70s/80s could have done it - with the will, spirit & can-do attitude.

The current SAF compares similary to the IDF now struggling in Lebanon -
we have the technology & equipment.

But is the will & desire to fight for our land present in ALL of us ?
That remains a question that can only be answered only when SAF is put under trial by fire.

angtauchwee
06-08-2006, 09:58 AM
...The current SAF compares similary to the IDF now struggling in Lebanon -
we have the technology & equipment.

But is the will & desire to fight for our land present in ALL of us ?
That remains a question that can only be answered only when SAF is put under trial by fire.

Bro, good and valid points. Agree with you that, ultimately, it's the desire and will to fight that counts. I would grab an SAR 21 (and even the humble petrol bomb) to repel attackers in the lorongs of Toa Payoh in a MOUT situation if my home and my survival is threatened. I would show no mercy to the enemy.

jc32258
06-08-2006, 11:32 AM
Sia la... with real men around like you, I feel safe sia. But I don't think the 6 Day War can be compared to this one, fighting an Army and a force of financially-supported Guerillas is different.

Come to think of it, the purpose of NS is to legitimately train all the males. It's like, every HDB flat has a soldier?

meowking
11-08-2006, 11:06 PM
[QUOTE=BFnut]The 6 day war in '67 saw Israel pitted against the 3 countries in a conventional setting:
a) IDF Aircraft took out the Egyptian AF & ground targets of opportunity.
b) Egyptian, Jordanian & Syrian troops, armour, arty & support were then systematically destroyed or captured.

....QUOTE]


Haha very good homework you've done there man ... very good ...

daddy_70
08-09-2006, 05:32 PM
“Showing off” your weapons telling people how advance your army, is more of an act to deter people from attacking.

des98017
08-09-2006, 09:07 PM
agree with the points of bfnut and angtauchwee. Some ideas to add, the israeli concentrated a lot of mout or urban warfare its conventional capability have been weaken. When u fight against an unconventional army with poeple not in uniform, its really a much tougher fight. From my personal experience in missions u cannot wait even a second to determine whether the person in the next room is a enemy anot and simply they won't be enough troops to cover all the buildings systematically. Which is why the Israeli prime minister was critise for not providing enough troops. Take for example a simple 6 or 7 storey building it will need nearly a company to secure but doctrine now say platoon plus can get it.

And yes to the new scholars, not all cause i know some good ones, not all technology can be used to help us in fighting mout so please army planners check with the ground troops using the system and gain their real feedback not from lt col or colonels they will tell u yes arh yes arh its a good piece of equipment. But one thing for sure we are definately learning from the Israeli experience but how we going to make use of these lessons depends on certain key players.

chancp24
08-09-2006, 09:28 PM
All you guys out there who responded to this thread. All talk like great military strategists. I think our NS have made good soldiers of our young men. Keep it up. I am impressed. :cool:

chancharli
13-09-2006, 05:02 PM
very interesting view...I do not know abt warfare but it seems more complicated to win a war these days. Had to worry abt civillians and cruelty in the face of media...seriously there is no time to think such things when you are under fire.

Diff between 67 and now....no humantarian groups or media to ***** abt cruelty...no to this no to that....just plain boom bam boom...gone!