No.1 military force in Asia and why

[angtauchwee]

Which military force is No.1 in Asia? I am not talking about numbers, as China would beat everybody flat down. I'm talking about level of professionalism. warfighting skills, the standard of training, how advanced are its equipment, the effectiveness of its firepower, the calibre of of leadership -- and, finally, most important of all, the ability of the force to win a battle.

Please vote here.

[ColeLiZhiEn]

okay... i voted for the SAF... it was a biased vote, cos singapore is my homeland and this is where i belong!!! haha... despite all the things that mindef says abt the SAF and its capabilities, i still have some doubts... after all, the SAF has never fired its guns in anger after all this years...

[BFnut]

I voted JSDF.

The JSDF consisting of the MSDF, ASDF & GSDF packs a high-tech deadly punch.

As an island country, they're working with the US on the Ballistic Missile Defence Sys (BMDS). With land-based Patriots and maritime based missiles, Nodong/other missile strikes will be thwarted.

The MSDF with its Aegis-equipped Kongo class destroyers are the tip of JSDF's naval spear. The Aegis is an excellent and modern weapons sys (Fleet defence, AA, ASW & EW). P3Cs orbiting ahead of the fleet can sniff out any subs and together with ASW rotary wings such as the SH-60J, dig a watery grave for any subs trying to sneak a torp launch against the fleet or try to launch against the main land.

The ASDF with its E3 Awacs & E2s, plus ground based radar will vector in F15Js and 16s to blot the enemy out of the sky.

The GSDF with its high tech type 90 MBTs deliver the final armour blow to any force attempting to make any sea-borne landing. Troopers from the GSDF will also quash any air-borne landings.

With U.S supplied equipment upgraded with Japanese technological ingenuity, JSDF can win most battles... tbc...

[angtauchwee]

can i say none of the above...or rather Nobody cos everybody would be dead if ever there is a battle in Asia.

You are obviously talking 100%, pure, unadulteraed cock. Your asinine comments merely reveals your ignorance of military affairs and military history. If you have nothing substantial to contribute, then stay out of this topic, which is beyond your intellectual level.

Eveerybody in Asia dead if there is a battle in Asia? What nonsense. You mean China would nuke very country in Asia? You mean North Korea has that many nuclear bombs? Even if China were to launch nukes at every Asian country (which is a next to impossible scenario), there will be survivors. In all probability, the cities would be hit because there's where the infrastructures are. But Asia is big man...there will be survivors.

[muscato]

I say JSDF. Those chaps have been quietly but steadily getting their act together. Never underestimate the desire to regain glory. A thwarted power returns with a vengance few can match.:eek:

[kittycat]

yawn....another one of those who thinks he knows all...on papers that's it. Hmmm...need to scratch my balls.

Go scratch your balls, you primate. Why must announce to the whole world? If you have nothing to contribute, keep your baboon comments to youself!

[radius_11]

Go scratch your balls, you primate. Why must announce to the whole world? If you have nothing to contribute, keep your baboon comments to youself!

:D :D :D :D hahaa

[ColeLiZhiEn]

Go scratch your balls, you primate. Why must announce to the whole world? If you have nothing to contribute, keep your baboon comments to youself!


hey hey... lets all cool down... no point getting all worked up... its just a friendly discussion... :)

[hqbongbong]

lets get it straight,PLA owns everyone in asia.

[ColeLiZhiEn]

lets get it straight,PLA owns everyone in asia.


by strength i agree... hell, they have the most no of ppl in the world... training wise, may not be so though i dun have info on that... their whole PLA cannot be trained like commandos right?

[BanditLO]

SAF... its one of the most advanced armies in Asia... but apart from that why didn't everyone vote for south korea? For having such an annoying neighbour, it wud be a waste if the US spent millions and even billions of dollars in making the korean army more high tech...

[BFnut]

Numerically speaking, PLA is No. 1.
However, the PLA is aggressively demobilising its forces and streamlining it to a leaner 1.85 million troops by 2008.

The reason is Chinese planners have seen what a small force with advanced technology, weaponry and communications can do to a numerically superior force e.g in Desert Sabre & Desert Storm.

Doctrine is still Soviet era with en masse attacks by ground troops with little or no air attacks and close in arty support co-ordination. They are only now frantically training all their Divs in combined arms maneuvers.

The clips that you see in the news of a massive sea, air & land attack by the PLA, PLAAF & PLAN shows their "set piece" forces - those that are trained repeatedly until they got the maneuver right. Combined arms is still a far off reality for all of the Dragon's forces.

From top down, their C&C element is sorely lacking in secure comms between HQ & Divison level command posts (CP). They realise that their potential enemies can triangulate on their signals & direct battery fire or even airstrikes on CP locations. Enemy counter battery fire can also be deadly for PLA artillery batteries which are mostly towed.

Only about 40% of the PLA's Divs & brigades are mechanised or armoured. They are breaking away from the term of "tank" divs, a clear sign of modernisation in progress and embracing the notion of combined arms warfare which has served the US well esp. in 91. But progress is slow.

The PLAN still has outdated destroyers & subs. So far only a few new destroyers & Russian off the shelf subs are replacing the ageing Green water fleet. PLAN is desperately trying to become a Blue water navy with the building of an a/craft carrier.

The Dragon is at least a decade behind in military technology and ability, compared with the Rising Sun.

The question is now, today - PLA isnt the No. 1 in the level of professionalism. warfighting skills, the standard of training, advanced equipment, firepower effectiveness & the calibre of of leadership.

JSDF is.

[BFnut]

SAF... its one of the most advanced armies in Asia... but apart from that why didn't everyone vote for south korea? For having such an annoying neighbour, it wud be a waste if the US spent millions and even billions of dollars in making the korean army more high tech...

SAF is indeed one of the most advanced... but not THE most.

Initially I was quite hesistant to vote for the JSDF as the ROKs are really good - built on the US model, combat action in the Korean War as well as the Vietnam conflict.... but in the end it came in a close second to the JSDF, well for me... anyways.

ROKs have most of their forces concentrated on dealing with NK sappers & Special Forces attacks within South Korea, especially in Seoul, vital installations such as ports (Pusan) & airports. A few Divs are deployed near to the DMZ supplying "trip wire" battalions to guard it.
Why "trip wire" ? - When the first NK shells start to drop on the ROKs' bunkers, the main batts will roll out from their marshalled areas in response to the specific attacks along the DMZ, alerted by the human trip wire.

This siege mentality suits the ROKs as a more defensive role.
It is also a step behind JSDF in weaponry, technology, training & leadership.

[gunners46]

hey BFnut, may i know are u a Bf.Nut member?

[BFnut]

Nope...
Sad to say I also dont have time to play the game now. I'm not even sure what's the latest patch after my 1.3 :(
Been bz with NDP and now the priority is IMF.
I sneak into STOMP while I'm at work...

I'm only aware of the website after you asked and I must say its really great (S'pore pride!) :D

[gunners46]

heh, thanks ;)
are u a full-time soldier? coz u seems like one

[BFnut]

LOL... i rather not say what's my vocation now except that I'm a Regular...
joined SAF since I was 17...grew up in Changi V & I guess I got affected seeing the CDOs...

Back to topic...
JSDF is arguably the most advanced & technologically superior force in Asia now. Although the description for its Armed Forces is "Self Defence Forces", its recent actions depict nothing close to its current term.

The deployment of JGSDF troops to Iraq signal a significant shift in defence policy for Japan. No longer is the posture that of a small force armed to protect itself, JSDF is undergoing changes.The yearly defence budget is more than that of China's. It is enhancing its already close and warm defence ties with the U.S. Arms sales as well as co-operation in research and funding of the BMDS point to JSDF being the leading Asian army for at least the next 20 years.

Training in the officers' schools emphasise on Joint readiness. Maneuvers are of a Combined Arms nature... tbc

[gunners46]

Ya i agree with wat u said, JSDF is now getting more and more advanced and its only a matter of time before it can really be fully-offensive

[des98017]

Ya i agree with wat u said, JSDF is now getting more and more advanced and its only a matter of time before it can really be fully-offensive

Technology wise JSDF is really the leader in the region nos of course china but a point to note these countries do not have offensive capabilities to show as of yet. But both are building towards that goal i believe by empowering their militaries roles as well as increasing military spending. I hope they do not clash in the course of their build up. We must watch for their navy and air force build up.

As to training in office school stress the combine arms thingy, i am not so sure bfnut i haven't really seen officers who know what the heck it means in combine arms neither have we really had big combine arms exercise nor if i can recall even smaller ones. We certainly need to beef up on that idea to keep our lead. In our small area though, i am certain we are much better than our neighbours even though we have not fight, as long as our soldeirs stay and fight when needed but i dun think that day will ever come.

[BFnut]

...As to training in office school stress the combine arms thingy, i am not so sure bfnut i haven't really seen officers who know what the heck it means in combine arms neither have we really had big combine arms exercise nor if i can recall even smaller ones. We certainly need to beef up on that idea to keep our lead. In our small area though, i am certain we are much better than our neighbours even though we have not fight, as long as our soldeirs stay and fight when needed but i dun think that day will ever come.

Hi des98017. Are you talking about SAF's Combined Arms capability?
My previous post is about JSDF's capability and not SAF's...;)

[angtauchwee]

Malaysian Armed Forces do not get a single vote. So cham one leh. Anyone are to comment why? The Malaysians have Sukhois and MiGs. These are fast movers indeed that outgun their neighbour in the south.

[des98017]

Hi des98017. Are you talking about SAF's Combined Arms capability?
My previous post is about JSDF's capability and not SAF's...;)

Yes i thought u were saying about ours, hardware we have but the integrated fighting seems to be more on paper than practise which is important part they neglect.

Malaysian forces, i have the opportunity to fight with them and i think theyghave more jungle survival skills than the average saf soldier but they are really handicap by the fact their soldiers are mostly older and fatter ones who rely a lot of vehicles which in our fight we manage to catch up with one of their attacking rover on foot. If their vehicles are down they basically can't press on too far. The other thing is their stuff mostly one grade down from our level meaning to say we have mg at platoon level but they have that only at coy level. their airforce is hamper by smaller budgets that restrict flight time quality wise therefore decrease. These are just some points lar.

[BFnut]

MAF or TUDM has :
a) 18 MIG 29Ns (since 95) which are comparable with the F15E Strike Eagle
b) 8 F/A-18Ds (since 97) which are comparable with the F16 Falcon
c) 18 Su 30MKMs (06 or end 07 delivery) which are comparable with the F15E Strike Eagle.

The MIGs & Hornets are ageing although the US offered a newer version of the Hornet to replace the D model.
The Su 30s will be the latest planes for TUDM which can offer a state of the art multirole platform.

TUDM has a mixture of both Western & Russian a/craft. Logistically-wise they will have to cater to different plane components & weapons stores for repair & replenishment.
Performance-wise, I can only surmise that Russian trainers are honing TUDM pilots' skills before the bulk Flanker delivery.

However, having new planes does not constitute that any particular Armed Forces is the best. It will have to be a combination of sea, air & land forces coupled with the right equipment, men (and women), training, leadership & strong will, that will win any war.

Personally, without comparing specifics of engine & plane performance, the Eagle should come out tops against the Flanker.
Even the current Falcons armed with Slammers (AMRAAM) have a very good BVR capability - a max range of 110km.. can blot the Flankers out of the sky or even prevent them from taking off in the first place (pre-emptive first strike).

[BFnut]

Tactics, weapons allocation & deployment, commitment of forces to the attack or defence, or even logistical support are important to winning any battle.

The mere movement of forces from point A to point B already involves a lot of headaches from planning & coordination. Just think of what it takes to fight a battle or the whole war.

It is not easy to build up an army, train it, maintain and improve it with technology & equipment, and if necessary bring it to battle and win.

[From_75557]

Japan is asia top military power, with a military budget of 45 billion a year for more than a decade. It is so much of a world class military with high tech technology. Japan military planners sure know how to spend their money!

[des98017]

Agree with you btw F15 have a 100 plus kill ratio with none lost to air combat hmmm that statistic on mig you might want to minus 1 some pilot crash 1 into the oil plantation. and yes its the training does matter a lot see the israeli pilots vs the enemies...

[hippocriticalful]

Erm, besides Nuclear weapons, China, North & South Korea has long got ICBM. Now India & Pakistan if I not wrong also possesses such missiles. Does these weapons make them more superior in terms of their rating in this discussion?

[Maverick.tk]

I must admit that the Japan has a rather strong "self defence force" or so they call it. The USA has also inked a deal for Patriot Missles to be delivered to Japan. Coupled with a strong navy with aegis destroyers, they are formidable but they will need a stronger Air Force to reign supreme. China on the other hand has a stronger advantage right now.

[BanditLO]

Recently, the pentagon released a report saying that China is the only country that can challenge the US militarily in terms of numbers and also in terms of technology....and even intelligence... This whole thing talks abt how china is so technologically advanced, from missile technology to cyberspace, that made them capable of initiating an offensive and also a defensive role when it comes to war... hmm....kinda creepy for them to realise...

[des98017]

Yes they are really a rising power but offensive hmmm conventionally wise not yet cause to be they need a stronger navy to be able to project their power further from their shores but they are doing this now at an alamring pace, putting in subs and even carriers that are blue water capable. We dun have too long to wait to see that becoming reality. ANd hippo can u just do me a favour help me calrify with that ghostrider guy but anyway i send him another challenge again. hai really wasting my time waiting for his reply.

[angtauchwee]

China will one day, in the not to distant future, be Asia's No.1 military power. There's no doubt about this. It may even be the world's No.1 military power (if the US military stagnates, which i doubt the Amercians will allow it to do so). But at the moment, China's military energies are all directed at Taiwan. The mission of its military today is to invade Taiwan should Ah Bian and his merry men decide to declare Taiwan independent. This may happen in 2008, when the eyes of the world (and its TV cameras) are focused on Beijing because of the Olympics being staged there. Ah Bian's calculation is that China would have to calibrate its military response more carefully -- otherwise countries would start quitting the Beijing Olympics.

So, currently, in terms of modernity, tactics, strategy, weaponry, offense capability, I would say the SAF is No.1.

[mourinhoisKING]

china is the obvious one

over the years it's spendings on military is increasing over time

china has the most population in the world

of cause it has the most armies in the world
althou it cutted down on the infantries and the army counts...it still remains as the country with the most armies (human military personals i should say)

plus the technology they are having...resoruces...china is no long the place where it's down to 1D or 2D warfare...

china is only keep a low profile of it's military capablilities...

even the USA is worried....

plus...china has this mentally of loyalty and protecting their nation it makes them a fearsome one

in 5 years to come i predict china's military power will be on the same or even higher level than of the US

the SAF is a force to be reckon...even malaysia is afraid of us...rmb Mr lee say he dont rule out a war if malaysia were to use the water issue to threaten us? and it did send more than some shivers down our northen counterpart.

but the SAF is more of a...tactical unit....based on small numbers....

on RAW STRENGHT....singapore is one of the lousiest.

thats why singapore is investing heavily on military technology

im glad it is not the age of swords and meelee warfare...if it is...singapore will be long ago invaded... =x

i should say singapore has the best technology,tactics and equipped force in south east asian and maybe one of the best in asian and in the world...but it doesnt mean its the strongest

[hippocriticalful]

Yes they are really a rising power but offensive hmmm conventionally wise not yet cause to be they need a stronger navy to be able to project their power further from their shores but they are doing this now at an alamring pace, putting in subs and even carriers that are blue water capable. We dun have too long to wait to see that becoming reality. ANd hippo can u just do me a favour help me calrify with that ghostrider guy but anyway i send him another challenge again. hai really wasting my time waiting for his reply.


:D very interesting topic so i joined in the fun but I don't know the ghostrider guy u mentioned lah.

We all know that Mongols were the greatest conquerers in history. I think if the offensive force is capable of applying to its prowess, it can overcome bigger opponent.

How come the poll did not include Thailand ?? I think they are the only SEA country who has a aircraft carrier. Is Thailand not better than the rest of SEA countries?

Have a good day

[hippocriticalful]

Aiya!!!!!! I cock eye, Thailand is indeed in the poll but score zero.. paisay paisay




:D very interesting topic so i joined in the fun but I don't know the ghostrider guy u mentioned lah.

We all know that Mongols were the greatest conquerers in history. I think if the offensive force is capable of applying to its prowess, it can overcome bigger opponent.

How come the poll did not include Thailand ?? I think they are the only SEA country who has a aircraft carrier. Is Thailand not better than the rest of SEA countries?

Have a good day

[des98017]

Oh sorrie mistake you for my friend yes indeed its a interesting topic, hmm yes they do have the only aircraft carrier as well as battleship i believe. Their military powers was display during the cambodia crises some time ago when ppl were burning their embassy over there. I think their commandos and aircrafts as well as warship went in during the first hour on standby waiting for govt orders to land and control the situation.

[angtauchwee]

How come the poll did not include Thailand ?? I think they are the only SEA country who has a aircraft carrier. Is Thailand not better than the rest of SEA countries?

Have a good day

Yes, thailand does have an aircraft carrier, purchased brand new from Spain. But it is now a rusting bucket. It costs too much for the Thais to run the vessel.

[des98017]

Indeed the cost of maintainence is usually a bigger price tag then the craft itself for example a sqn of f16 cost about 300 million to maintain and the thais really dun have to have the carrier and the battleship cause no one has anything to match it a bit of overkill but their strength cannot be denied i mean the cambodia crises again 1 hour in the air ready to go in even for us it needs about 2 hours.

[des98017]

Indeed the cost of maintainence is usually a bigger price tag then the craft itself for example a sqn of f16 cost about 300 million to maintain and the thais really dun have to have the carrier and the battleship cause no one has anything to match it a bit of overkill but their strength cannot be denied i mean the cambodia crises again 1 hour in the air ready to go in even for us it needs about 2 hours.

[Singapour]

if u say best what do u mean the amount of people the technolgy or the training style?

on a rating of 1 to 10 for technology i say singapore owns it 10
on a rating of 1 to 10 for population i say People's Liberation Army (China) owns it 10

on a rating of 1 to 10 for training style i say Japan's Self Defence Force

[azureyuki]

I will choose one of those countries that have combat experience or in a war zone and I think South Korea might have an edge as they are technically still at war with the North. With US equipment and training as well as the tension from having a crazy guy tt likes to play with missiles next to you, they should be the most ready to go.

[des98017]

but they also have not gone to war for the last 50 years so most of the generals or veterans all retire or dead liao so does that experience really count? US kinda different everytime go to war to collect badge for their uniform really veterans but the nature of warfare also keep changing.